rwillmsen ([info]rwillmsen) wrote,
@ 2006-05-02 18:45:00
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Entry tags:globalisation, london

Ealing - the Promised Land of the Polish People?


I have nothing whatsoever against Polish people; although I can't claim that any of my best friends are Polish, I have met some charming Poles over the years. In fact at the moment I have a couple in my class who I like enormously. And years ago, in my very first teaching job, on a glorious summer's day in Dublin, I was given a class of 14 Polish au pairs, who seemed very sweet, outgoing and broadminded. Or at least they did until I happened to mention the word 'gypsy'.

From that moment, as they skies outside the classroom suddenly filled with dark clouds the atmosphere in the classroom quickly turned to one of unadulterated racial hatred. Everybody had a bitter tale to tell about the filthy, lazy, scrounging scum plaguing their land. I was genuinely shocked as noone seemed to have the slightest reservation about advocating violence against an evidently fairly beleaguered community - 70% of Poland's gypsies were murdered in the Holocaust.

Of course it would have been churlish of me to point out that six of the main extermination camps were located in Poland, especially as so far as the Nazis were concerned it was all part of Germany anyway. But it just so happened that at the time I was reading a book about alcohol consumption around Eastern Europe, which mentioned that there is a very potent myth about the number of Jewish people living in Poland. Around three million died in the death camps, it said, and although official statistics state that there are now only about 15,000 remaining, most Polish people would apparently state with confidence that the real number is more like a good couple of million. So in the midst of this firestorm of racist attitudes I decided to find out if this was really the case, and my students, who before had seemed perfectly good-natured and tolerant, obliged by letting me know in detail about the scandal of Poland's hidden jews. I don't think they were talking about Anne Frank.

Partly because of this, I've never considered Poland as a possible destination, either for living or for a holiday. Too cold, too grey, too superstitious and too, well, racist. And certainly as far as the political side of things go, I think I've recently been considerably vindicated. The weather, as far as I know, has not improved much either.

I can understand, then, why people might not want to live there. Now, of course, the country is part of the EU and Polish people are free to travel to work - anyone who has been anywhere near Victoria coach station in London over the last couple of years can witness just how many of them are keen to come to the UK and find a job. They come to places like Ealing.

Now I want to make it clear here that I am totally in favour of immigration. It enriches the destination country economically, culturally, linguistically - in every conceivable way. Places like London, Sheffield and, now, Dublin are infinitely better-off for enjoying such a variety of different peoples from all over the world, and anyone who cares to suggest otherwise is well advised to spend a year or so in a place that doesn't have such a mix - China, for example - and then see how they feel.

The problem that I do have is that here in Ealing, where I work, that mix is largely limited to the people you see on the streets. Because the moment you step into a cafe or a pub, the first thing you notice is: that almost all the staff are white. It's quite rare to be served by black, Pakistani or Bengali people - by, that is, locals. The majority of people working in these jobs are Polish and have come here very recently, and they are doing jobs which, on the whole, would otherwise be done by people who were either born here or have lived here longer - for want of a better word, British people, wherever their families originated from.

The same point was made in an article in the Guardian late last year by Polly Toynbee, in which she talked about the recent opportunistic changes in Conservative Party Immigration policy. Her basic argument was that 'the use of cheap foreign Labour may boost our GDP, but it enriches the well-off at the expense of the low-paid'. I can see her point, insofar as she is talking about recent arrivals from the new EU countries:

Bercow (Conservative MP) and Labour hotly assert that migrants don't take jobs from British workers nor depress wages. But there is no evidence for this assertion. It is impossible to know what level wages might be at or how many unemployed might have been tugged into jobs at higher pay rates had Britain kept its doors shut to new EU citizens until their countries had caught up economically.

Blair and Brown embrace the inevitability of globalisation, but make a deliberately class-blind analysis. Migrants do bring GDP growth, but remember the Gate Gourmet workers fired to make way for cheaper newly arrived workers. Migrants add to the profits of the company and thus to GDP. They keep down the cost of flying for people wealthy enough to fly. They also hold down the pay rate for all other low-paid workers, keeping wage inflation remarkably low and the Bank of England very happy.

But all this does nothing but harm to the old Gate Gourmet workers and to all the other low-paid. This is what globalisation does, widening the gap between rich and poor. Cheap labour provides more cheap services for the rich to get their lifestyle at a premium while nailing an ever-larger swath of the workforce to the minimum-wage floor. The greatest job growth is in rock-bottom jobs.

London has the most migrant workers and it also has the most unemployed. Who are they? Many more young people are not in education or work after generations of deprivation. Bangladeshis are among the poorest because 80% of their women don't work. Many more London single mothers can't work because the cost of housing and childcare means even tax credits don't lift them out of a poverty trap where a low-paid job means working at a loss.


This is quite a sophisticated argument because the superficial idea - that Eastern Europeans are coming over here and taking 'our' jobs, thereby deflating wages - seems like a classic racist rallying call. But we are talking here about a very sudden phenomenon, and one that seems to have been orchestrated from above precisely in order to achieve the objective of lowering wages.

I'm not actually very sure how I feel about the conclusions she comes to. In terms of possible solutions, the following is both seductive and shocking:

Try this thought experiment: 43.5% of nurses recruited by the NHS since 1999 come from outside the UK. What if that were banned? The NHS in London would find clever ways to recruit from the city's mass of underqualified boys and girls, single mothers and other non-workers. Recruiters might set up special classes for 14-year-olds interested in nursing, promising work as nursing assistants while they trained, places to live in attractive nurses' homes, starter homes for key-worker families, status and good pay. The offer would be irresistible, and yes, taxes would be higher.

Other employers would be in hot contest to entice the forgotten people into building, transport and catering. Adam Smith's hidden hand of the market would force the workless into work. It is shocking that 30,000 of the 70,000 workers being employed to start work on transport infrastructure for the Olympics are to be east Europeans, not impoverished Londoners.


I'm not so certain about the 'hidden hand of the market'. I think that's just as much as a myth as Poland's hidden millions of Jews. After all, one of the main reasons why people from low-wage countries are suddenly able to work in different countries is because the not-so-hidden-hand of European business and pro-business policy makers has determined that it is a convenient way of 'reducing costs' and making us all more 'competitive'. And I find it doubtful that the new EU countries will rapidly 'catch up' with their wealthier neighbours, and find it difficult to believe that anyone really believes that – the most quoted statistic given for their ongoing level of economic development is GDP, which is, of course, and especially given that we are talking about wages here, nonsense. Those countries have been brought into the EU because it is cheaper to produce things there and workers will work for less money.

Nevertheless I don't think there is some kind of idealised version of EU capitalism where everybody could be content to stay put and employers would have their workers’ best interests at heart. Globalised capitalism only allows and encourages people to move when it's in its own very best interests, and it is cheaper to hand over low-paid jobs to EU newcomers than it is to provide longer-term immigrants - asylum seekers, for example - with the support and language training they need in order to be able to establish themselves here more permanently with proper jobs. After all, nobody should be working all week for the pittance that they pay you to work in cafes or bars these days, whether they were born in Britain, Bangladesh or Poland.

In conclusion, then, two unrelated points. One, that people from the Deep South must find it reasonably amusing that there is a country by the name of Po'land. And secondly, a prediction: in the not-too-distant future someone will pop up to proclaim that Poland is the China of Europe. Oh wait, someone just did.



(Post a new comment)

POLAND, I PREFER POLDARK MYSELF.
[info]vic_dakin
2006-05-02 07:07 pm UTC (link)
I was in Poland once as a child, it fucking stank

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Re: POLAND, I PREFER POLDARK MYSELF.
[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-07 10:36 pm UTC (link)
But you live in Dublin, right?!?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: POLAND, I PREFER POLDARK MYSELF.
(Anonymous)
2007-02-07 06:58 pm UTC (link)
www.poland.pl , your mother is fucking stank

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]allida
2006-05-02 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Well the same thing is happening in the United States. It began with the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs in the 80's, and continued with the outsourcing of computer jobs in the 90's and now. So what's left is a polarized economy with high level positions in corporations left open, and low level positions in the service industry left open, and a disappearing middle. Immigration does affect this too, because the Illegal immigrants entering the US markets have the same effect. That is part of the reason they are trying to change the immigration policies in the US.

I just watched "Spanglish," which is a not-so-great movie about what it is like to be a Latina in the US, but it had one point which I think is a perfect metaphor: The dad of the rich-kids offers the kids some $$ for picking up beach glass, figuring that they will get bored quickly and he won't be out that much money. The daughter of their live-in maid is allowed into the bargain, and she goes out and picks up a ton of beach glass, which (haha yeah right!) adds up to $650.00! The dad then debates whether to pay her or not, because he wasn't expecting that any of them would actually do the work to find that much glass. In the end he pays her, but you can bet the next time he won't offer such high prices for the glass.

Essentially the argument for the US isolationists is something similar: that the immigrants are flooding the labor market by doing jobs that nobody wants to do, and thereby pushing down the overall wages.

It is hard to say what is right. But certainly it seems to me in our best interests to build an economy whose structure is sound. I'd say the problem isn't the immigration, but the fact that many of the production jobs which provide sustainibility in an economy have been moved outside of the US, and (I assume) the UK and most of the EU as well. The "skilled-labor" jobs of manufacturing which have been lost have left a huge hole in the middle of the economies of those places.

If the idea that with-holding labor/production occurs to any of the countries currently classed "undeveloped" where much of the world's production goes on and they realize they can stop work to demand better wages, the corporation/owner nations will be screwed, because we no longer have the infrastructure nor the skills in our disappearing middle classes.

The immigrants taking service industry jobs seems to me to be a secondary problem. If there were middle-tier jobs for the asylum seekers, and the locals to take, then there wouldn't be any problem with the newer immigrants taking the bottom tier jobs.

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[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-03 08:47 pm UTC (link)
That is part of the reason they are trying to change the immigration policies in the US.

I think straightforward racism has a lot do with this. I think business obviously takes advantage of the willingness of newly-arrived immigrants to work for next to nothing, but the system tries to reserve for itself the right to control the movement of people and of jobs. Sometimes it is just a case of divide and rule, scaremongering American workers into thinking that immigrants themselves are responsoible for poor wages and crappy jobs, when this is not the case. It takes concerted political action, of the kind we saw in LA last week, to demand meaningful rights for immigrants and better jobs for everybody.

I like what you said about the 'outsourcing' nations of the world realising the power of withholding labour. And taking otehr kinds of action - in an ideal world everybody would follow the example of this guy!

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[info]allida
2006-05-05 10:32 am UTC (link)
Right, they are using latent racist/xenophobic attitudes to justify labour abuses, just like they did against the Irish and Italians in New York at the turn of the previous century.

I'm not sure the political action taken in LA is going to do anything, but if anything I've grown cynical about the supposed freedoms of my home country. The immigration debate in the US right now boils down to one thing: lack of enforcement of current laws. Essentially the presentation of bills in the Senate versus the presentation of bills in the House differs mostly in how they final laws will affect the immigrants themselves. Therefore since their proposals are opposing, I believe that there will be little change in the consequences for illegal aliens in the US, but that the laws for enforcement within companies will be more strictly enforced. (In case you aren't up on this, the Senate Bill {which passed by the way} proposes a general amnesty {in the guise of guest-worker permits} for illegals from certain Latin American countries. In turn the House Bill {yet to be voted upon} proposes to make illegal immigration a prosecutable FELONY.) It is my opinion that each proposal for what to do with the illegals currently in the country is mere talk, and that neither house wants to pass that portion of their Bills into Law. They are using them for political posturing and position prior to the upcoming Congressional elections in November. They aren't going to put either bill to the final vote before then, because if they do, they risk either losing Latino votes, or losing Southern Conservative votes. The meat of both bills is actually in the legalese for how to make companies enforce existing labour-laws. I haven't actually read the bills, but from what I've read about them, one bill proposes to make companies be more consistent in who they hire, and how they document them. And the other bill proposes to put those documentations into some sort of national registry. I'm sort of vague on those parts of the bills.

I've got a friend in the restaurant industry in Chicago, and at one of the companies, a national company (now a franchise, but before previously a corporation proper), they had one girl with three sets of papers that they kept re-hiring every time she got caught and came back again. She was Yolanda, and then Maria, and finaly Marina or something like that. I'm sure the photos on the ID's and the girl herself was recognisable, but because there is no check-up on that part of the paperwork, she could be hired each time. The people at the company didn't care if she was illegal. They cared that she'd work for shit-money, and that she worked well.

--a

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[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-07 10:13 pm UTC (link)
But regardless of whether or not these new laws are actually enforced, they certainly contribute to an increasing level of and social and legal hostility against illegal immigrants.

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[info]csn
2006-05-03 06:00 am UTC (link)
Well, I only went to Krakow for a few days, but it was one of my favorite places I went to in Europe and especially in all of Eastern Europe. Compared to the rest of Eastern Europe, it felt to me that Poland is farther past the dark specter of crappy service and communism than some of its neighbors. Certainly a lot less racist than the Czech Republic.

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[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-03 08:33 pm UTC (link)
Really? I've never been to either country, I should say, but I've never met any Czech people who were as keen to share their racism with me as a good few Polish people. Krakow is apparently very pretty, but inhabited by quite a few scarey-looking skinheads, no?

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[info]csn
2006-05-03 08:46 pm UTC (link)
Not in my experience. I'm rather dark and I encountered racism all over the CR. In Krakow I stayed with two lovely young women and hung out with their friends, played frisbee in the street with them, went to some guy's 30th b-day party at the end of a soup competition...it was a very few memorable days. I definitely never felt any animosity.

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[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-03 08:51 pm UTC (link)
I should stress that I'm definitely not trying to suggest that everyone in Poland is racist, or that racism doesn't exist elsewhere! A lot of the attitudes I mentioned are common to a number of Eastern European countries, and of course here in the UK we have our own problems.

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[info]csn
2006-05-03 08:55 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, there are a lot of problems in Eastern Europe. I felt that the mood was rather upbeat in Krakow compared to its neighbors, kids playing in the park, music on the streets, etc. It felt much livelier, though it has plenty of dark spots.

And yeah, that stuff int he article you posted too is crap..I'm sure you are aware of the current immigration stuff happening in the US. There were millions of people marching in the cumulative streets of Washington DC, NYC, Chicago, LA, SF and others the other day! Pretty amazing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]csn
2006-05-03 08:49 pm UTC (link)
Of course, there was this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/03/world/03letter.html
yesterday!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-03 08:53 pm UTC (link)
Looks interesting! Do you have a password?!?

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[info]csn
2006-05-03 08:55 pm UTC (link)
ah dang, you should just get an account..

WARSAW, April 27 — When Kazimiera Szczuka, a well-known literary critic and television personality here, satirized a young woman who often recites prayers for broadcast on Radio Maryja, an ultraconservative Roman Catholic radio station in Poland, she did not know, she says, that the young woman suffered from a crippling disease and used a wheelchair.
Skip to next paragraph
Justyna Cieslikowska/Forum

Kazimiera Szczuka, whose televised satire of a Catholic broadcaster resulted in a big fine.

"I called her and apologized to her, because I didn't know she was disabled," Ms. Szczuka said in an interview, "even though many disabled people phoned me to say that I shouldn't apologize."

Still, the Polish National Broadcasting Council, which enforces broadcasting regulations, fined the commercial television station on which Ms. Szczuka had appeared the equivalent of $125,000 for insulting a disabled person and mocking her religion. It was, the Polish press has reported, the highest fine the council has levied.

That was in March. In April a regular commentator on Radio Maryja, Stanislaw Michalkiewicz, made what are almost universally deemed here to have been classically anti-Semitic statements, accusing Jews of using what he called "the Holocaust industry" of trying to exact financial "tribute" from Poland through property restitution claims.

But the broadcasting council has taken no action so far in the case of Mr. Michalkiewicz and Radio Maryja (pronounced Maria), even though the far-right Catholic radio station has often been a forum for comments that Jews and others here have called derogatory and insulting.

Why the different treatment, and what does it show about Poland? Commentators have been asking those questions, even as the conservative government has negotiated a power-sharing arrangement with a group of populist parties whose beliefs are very close to those of Radio Maryja.

The government says no action was taken against Radio Maryja for a simple technical reason: when Mr. Michalkiewicz made his remark, the president of the National Broadcasting Council, Elzbieta Kruk, a longtime friend and associate of Poland's president, Lech Kaczynski, had been forced to step down because of a challenge to the way she had been appointed — by Mr. Kaczynski himself rather than by the council's other members. During this time, Ms. Kruk has told the Polish press, she has had no authority to act.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

part 2
[info]csn
2006-05-03 08:56 pm UTC (link)
But critics of the government see things differently, saying it fears alienating the station or its constituency, which both helped it win the last election. Beyond that, some Poles see the unfolding of a bitter culture war involving two incompatible views of this country's identity and values.

The new conservative governing party, Law and Justice, clearly sides more with the religious and traditional values generally represented by Radio Maryja than with people like Ms. Szczuka, who see Radio Maryja as an intolerant throwback to an unwelcome past.

"They don't like her because she is independent," said Andrzej Jonas, the editor of the English-language Polish Voice, referring to Ms. Szczuka, who is well known in Poland as a feminist, an active supporter of gay rights and an opponent of Law and Justice, whose leading figures are President Kaczynski and his twin brother, the party chairman, Jaroslaw Kaczynski.

Nobody here is saying the scandal indicates a resurgence of the old Polish demon of anti-Semitism, which is against the law here and which many people, including opponents of the Kaczynski twins, believe has never been at lower levels in this country than it is now.

But what many people believe to be at issue are the deep divisions that have appeared in Polish life since the end of Soviet-enforced Communist dictatorship some 16 years ago.

Ms. Szczuka's views reflect a secular, Western-oriented Poland that is in the European Union and subscribes to what have become the standard European democratic and liberal values.

"There was a scandal because they hate me," Ms. Szczuka said, referring to the Radio Maryja listeners who reportedly demanded that the government take action against her. "They hate me because I'm a feminist, I'm Jewish — mostly because I'm a feminist," she said.

She is also an activist for gay rights, while President Kaczynski is a political figure who as mayor of Warsaw last year gained notoriety throughout liberal circles in Europe when he banned the city's annual gay pride parade.

On the other side is Radio Maryja, which to many Polish analysts represents the still deeply religious Poland that feels threatened by creeping secularism. The station was founded about 16 years ago by the Rev. Tadeusz Rydzyk, a conservative, populist priest who actively supported the Kaczynski brothers during last year's election campaign.

From time to time the station has taken on a nasty edge, in the form of callers on talk programs or commentators who have expressed the not-quite-disappeared caricatures of Jews that were once deeply embedded in the Polish culture.

As reported in the daily Gazeta Wyborcza, Mr. Michalkiewicz, the Radio Maryja commentator, spoke on the air of "the men from Judea" who "are trying to surprise us from behind." He said the World Jewish Congress was demanding $60 billion in compensation for Jewish property lost during World War II, calling the organization "a main firm in the Holocaust industry."

He called Gazeta Wyborcza, where a number of prominent Polish Jewish journalists work, "an unusual example of the Jewish fifth column in Poland."

A professional journalists' organization, the Council for Media Ethics, branded what it called Mr. Michalkiewicz's "weakly documented accusations" examples of "primitive anti-Semitism." The papal nuncio in Poland, Archbishop Jozef Kowalczyk, wrote a letter to the Polish episcopate asking that it work "to overcome difficulties caused by some transmissions and the views presented by Radio Maryja."

Still, the government has taken no action against Radio Maryja like those it took against the television station where Ms. Szczuka committed her anticlerical satire, and the suspicion that the discrepancy reflects an unspoken cultural and political alliance between the government and Father Rydzyk's radio outlet is widespread.

"It is probably right to say that that is the real reason," Wojciech Z. Dziomdziora, a lawyer and the only one of the National Broadcasting Council's five members to oppose the fine levied against Ms. Szczuka, said in an interview.

"The legal situation really didn't allow us to take action against Radio Maryja," he added, "but probably that was a very comfortable situation for the council."

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: part 2
[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-03 09:12 pm UTC (link)
President Kaczynski is a political figure who as mayor of Warsaw last year gained notoriety throughout liberal circles in Europe when he banned the city's annual gay pride parade

Just like with Bush, one hesitates to employ the phrase 'creeping fascism', but still...

Thanks for posting that, I'll try and ask my Polish students what they think of Mr. Michalkiewicz, if I can pronounce it of course. And if they can understand the word 'radio'. Just to find out if they think he's 'dobry' or 'katastrov'!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

ealing
(Anonymous)
2006-05-13 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Krakow is now the number one place to go for British stag nigbhts. The place is crawling with fat, pukeing red faced Brits who have got bored with prague and now it's Poladn's turn.

Poor Poland.

I have lived here for years and I have yet to hear someone think that there are millions of jews in the country. There are anti-Semites, for sure, and the government is full of Trogs (voted for in gthe main by people in the backward east of the country.

But I promise you - you can go a whole day without meeting any racists at all! If you avoid the drunk Brits, Poladn is quite a nice place.

the beatroot
http://www.beatroot.blogspot.com/

(Reply to this) (Parent)

polish
(Anonymous)
2006-05-16 10:41 am UTC (link)
i find the vast majority of the poles that have recently come to england very brave, they walk around screwfacing the locals, acting hard......there are hundreds of glossy stickers being put on lampposts and street furniture, and each 1 is a different hooligan firm. they want to fight the brits, because we got a world wide rep for being cunts. and guess what, we dont fear them.
i think there will be just as much trouble at home as in germany this summer.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: polish
[info]rwillmsen
2006-05-16 07:08 pm UTC (link)
Er, what does screwfacing mean?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: polish
(Anonymous)
2007-08-27 09:35 pm UTC (link)
Its an ancient English ritual whereby you paint your face blue and stick out your tongue, while screaming at the top of your voice.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: polish
(Anonymous)
2007-10-04 09:43 pm UTC (link)
I think that there should be a quota on the number of people coming in from these former communist countries. It is significantly effecting the social economics of the UK. In other words they should go back to their own countries and make them a better place.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: polish
(Anonymous)
2008-02-02 04:21 am UTC (link)
poland was the first democracy in europe.
it was the first country in europe to allow the Jewish people to settle.
it was also the second biggest territory(some consider empire) in its day.17th century
built on friendships rather than conquered land.
the birthplace of Copernicus who said the world revolves around the sun and not the sun around earth.

Poland was a very successful and prospered into the mid 18th century.
surrounding monarchies became very fearful of this "cancer of freedom"
they conspired
Following the death of Polish King John III Sobieski and having successfully converted to Catholicism, Augustus was elected King of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1697 with the backing of Imperial Russia and Austria, which financed him through the Jewish banker, Berend Lehmann.

It is sometimes incorrectly stated that Augustus defeated the other leading candidates, Jakub Ludwik Sobieski, son of the previous king, and the French candidate, François Louis, Prince of Conti. Augustus actually received fewer votes than Conti (despite a massive bribery campaign), but he rushed to Poland and had himself crowned before the French candidate could set foot in the Commonwealth.
he was also an ex lover of catherine the great.

he led poland into many a conflict.
defeating sweden which was feared by all of europe as well as pushing back the ottoman empire.
this stretched poland so thin that the ruscians,germans, and austrians walked in casually.
--i misspell r.s.s.i.a.n.s because this site is owned by a ruscian company--
although i'm sure many other of my words pop up on the system.
i don't want to cause trouble, i talk of some controversial stuff
they each had there way of ruling over this land, some say the cruelest ruscia.
from the beginning bent on erasing the existence of its "freedom"neighbor any way it could.

for example: sending the "inteligencia" best and brightest of the population by the trainload to siberia
as it was the cheapest way to get rid of them.
this was a method used during ww2 to its fullest.

the fact that your seeing a multitude of polish immigrants in england is because poland is recovering faster than any other country that has suffered similar destruction.
the ignorant and poor of the population can't survive in a market of german prices and ukrainian wages.
they complain about there own country because they are hurt,
confused, and angry.
and anger of course is the best catalyst of stupid thoughts
-Warsaw saw 95% destruction. after which the ruscians filled it with farmers to work in the factories.
poland is experiencing a subsequent economic revolution after a second and third serfdom phenomena .
-much of polish history was not allowed to be taught during the com.unist era.

the same amount of jewish poles were killed during ww2 as catholic poles.
Israel honors poland for more poles died trying to save Jews in europe than any other nationality.

i recommend either "god's playground" or "heart of europe" by Norman Davies. to really understand the soul of the polish people.

by the way, look up the chemical company IG Farben and the creators of the us fed. res.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: polish
(Anonymous)
2008-02-02 06:23 am UTC (link)
poland was the first democracy in europe.
it was the first country in europe to allow the Jewish people to settle.
it was also the second biggest territory(some consider empire) in its day.17th century
built on friendships rather than conquered land.
the birthplace of Copernicus who said the world revolves around the sun and not the sun around earth.

Poland was a very successful and prospered into the mid 18th century.
surrounding monarchies became very fearful of this "cancer of freedom"
they conspired
Following the death of Polish King John III Sobieski and having successfully converted to Catholicism, Augustus was elected King of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in 1697 with the backing of Imperial Ruscia and Austria, which financed him through the Jewish banker, Berend Lehmann.

It is sometimes incorrectly stated that Augustus defeated the other leading candidates, Jakub Ludwik Sobieski, son of the previous king, and the French candidate, François Louis, Prince of Conti. Augustus actually received fewer votes than Conti (despite a massive bribery campaign), but he rushed to Poland and had himself crowned before the French candidate could set foot in the Commonwealth.
he was also an ex lover of catherine the great.

he led poland into many a conflict.
defeating sweden which was feared by all of europe as well as pushing back the ottoman empire.
this stretched poland so thin that the ruscians,germans, and austrians walked in casually.
--i misspell r.s.s.i.a.n.s because this site is owned by a ruscian company--
although i'm sure many other of my words pop up on the system.
i don't want to cause trouble, i talk of some controversial stuff
they each had there way of ruling over this land, some say the cruelest ruscia.
from the beginning bent on erasing the existence of its "freedom"neighbor any way it could.

for example: sending the "inteligencia" best and brightest of the population by the trainload to siberia
as it was the cheapest way to get rid of them.
this was a method used during ww2 to its fullest.

the fact that your seeing a multitude of polish immigrants in england is because poland is recovering faster than any other country that has suffered similar destruction.
the ignorant and poor of the population can't survive in a market of german prices and ukrainian wages.
they complain about there own country because they are hurt,
confused, and angry.
and anger of course is the best catalyst of stupid thoughts
-Warsaw saw 95% destruction. after which the ruscians filled it with farmers to work in the factories.
poland is experiencing a subsequent economic revolution after a second and third serfdom phenomena .
-much of polish history was not allowed to be taught during the com.unist era.
it is widely stated that poland will not truly begin to heal until the last of the population born during communism die. 1989

the same amount of jewish poles were killed during ww2 as catholic poles.
Israel honors poland for more poles died trying to save Jews in europe than any other nationality.

i recommend either "god's playground" or "heart of europe" by Norman Davies. to really understand the soul of the polish people.

by the way, look up the chemical company IG Farben and the creators of the us fed. res.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: polish
(Anonymous)
2008-02-02 06:37 am UTC (link)
sorry, accidentally posted it twice, i just wanted to say that it is widely acknowledge in poland that poland will not truly begin to heal until the last of the communist era born population passes away.
until that time, it is an injured raped victim that is just out of a coma.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: polish
(Anonymous)
2008-02-02 06:49 am UTC (link)
sorry, accidentally posted it twice, i just wanted to say that it is widely acknowledge in poland that poland will not truly begin to heal until the last of the communist era born population passes away.
until that time, it is an injured raped victim that is just out of a coma.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: polish
(Anonymous)
2008-02-02 06:54 am UTC (link)
see how u can connect IG Farben, Warberg, Fed. Reserve US, Rothchild, third reich

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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